Postmortem interview with Carl Gustav Jung 

The Organizational Shadow

'What if the greatest threat to your company is not your competitor or your cash flow, but something invisible lurking in the boardroom? In this post-mortem interview, we sit down with Carl Gustav Jung to explore the hidden dimension of organizational life: the Shadow. 

Jung reveals how leaders unconsciously imprint their personal darkness onto their companies, how this shadow seeps into culture, and how it ultimately shapes and often sabotages the products and services delivered to customers. 

More importantly, he offers a path forward for those courageous enough to look into the mirror. Because as Jung reminds us: "An organization cannot give what it does not possess."

The Organizational Shadow

Erik: Professor Jung, thank you for speaking with me. I'd like to discuss a world that might seem far removed from your consulting room in Küsnacht: the world of companies, organizations, and leadership.

Jung: (smiles) You are mistaken, Erik. In Zurich, I treated countless bankers, industrialists, and directors. People with power and responsibility. Their problems were not fundamentally different from those of the artist or the housewife. Only the setting was different. Instead of struggling with their mother or father, they struggled with their board of directors. Instead of sisters or brothers, with competing departments. The soul knows no hierarchy. 

Erik: You speak about the personal shadow. Does something like an 'organizational shadow' exist? A collective shadow of a company?

Jung: Absolutely. An organization is not a machine, no matter how much one would like to believe that. It is a living system, a temporary gathering of souls with a common goal. And just like an individual, such a system develops a persona: the face it shows to the outside world. The mission, the vision, the core values on the website. "Customer-oriented," "Innovative," "Sustainable." That is the mask. But behind that mask, in the corridors and meeting rooms, the shadow lives.

Erik: How does that shadow come into being?

Jung: The shadow of an organization is formed by everything the system does not want to see, does not want to feel, does not want to acknowledge. And the primary source of that shadow is leadership. The founder, the CEO, the management team: they imprint an indelible shadow stamp on the entire organization.

Erik: A shadow stamp? Can you explain that?

Jung: Imagine a CEO, let's call him Mr. X. Mr. X is a man of ratio, control, and measurable results. He is hard on himself, expects everyone to start at 7 a.m., and abhors what he calls 'soft stuff.' Emotions, intuition, doubt – these have no place in his company. What happens? Mr. X has his own shadow: he has buried his own gentleness, his own doubt, his own emotional side deeply. But because he is the boss, his personal shadow becomes the organizational shadow.

Erik: Concretely, what happens to the employees?

Jung: The employees keenly sense which behavior is rewarded and which behavior is punished – not in words, but in deeds. They learn that emotions, doubts, or human vulnerability must not be shown. They suppress those qualities. But they don't disappear. They come to life in the hallways, in the gossip circles, in the cynicism during lunch breaks. The organization develops an undercurrent of unspoken frustration, fear, and apparent loyalty.

Erik: That sounds familiar. But that remains internal, doesn't it? How does it ultimately affect the products or services?

Jung: (leans back) Ah, that is the crux. An organization cannot give what it does not possess itself. If a company internally has no room for doubt and reflection, how can it create products that truly address the doubts and needs of customers? If management has banished all gentleness, how can they deliver services that truly feel human?

Take a bank that strives only for profit maximization and has suppressed all human measure. That bank will design products that are mathematically sound, but fail to consider real people. Ultimately, such a bank sells its customers products they don't understand or don't need. That is not an individual employee's mistake; it is the shadow of the system seeping into the product.

A Quote from Jung for the Boardroom:
"The shadow is not a fault to be corrected, but a part of the whole that demands to be acknowledged. Only when an organization embraces its own darkness can it truly bring light into the world."

Erik: So you're saying that a toxic corporate culture ultimately leads to toxic products?

Jung: Precisely. An automaker that internally crushes any deviation will design cars that externally also tolerate no deviation – until something goes wrong. A software company that isn't allowed to make mistakes will deliver software that makes users feel stupid. A healthcare institution that banishes emotions from the boardroom will treat patients as numbers. The shadow within becomes the experience without.

Erik: You spoke earlier about projection. Does that also happen at the organizational level?

Jung: Constantly. The organization projects its own suppressed qualities onto others. A company that is internally chaotic will accuse customers of being 'unreasonable' for wanting clear agreements. A management team afraid of its own insecurity will see competitors as 'aggressive players.' A department unwilling to face its own laziness will blame the IT department for being 'too slow.' It's the same mechanism, just on a larger scale.

Erik: What should a CEO who recognizes this in their own organization do? How does one begin shadow work for an entire company?

Jung: (looks intently at Erik) It always begins with themselves. A CEO cannot change the shadow of their organization if they refuse to look at their own shadow. They must have the courage to ask themselves: "What do I forbid in myself? Which emotions, which doubts, which gentleness have I banished? And how does that live on in my company?"

After that, they must create a culture where it is safe to name the shadow. That means: meetings where not only successes are celebrated, but fears are also voiced. Where employees are allowed to say: "I don't know right now." Where mistakes are not punished, but investigated. This is not soft management; this is the hardest form of leadership. It takes courage to let go of control and let the organization breathe.

A CEO cannot change the shadow of their organization if they refuse to look at their own shadow. They must have the courage to ask themselves: "What do I forbid in myself? Which emotions, which doubts, which gentleness have I banished? And how does that live on in my company?" 

Erik: You also spoke about the collective shadow of entire industries. Aren't we seeing that happen now?

Jung: (sighs) Indeed. Look at the financial sector before the 2008 crisis. For decades, the banking world wore a persona of stability, solidity, and expertise. Everything that didn't fit – greed, recklessness, ignorance – was repressed. Until the shadow grew so large that it plunged the entire world into crisis. Or take the tech industry. For years, the mask was: "We are making the world a better place." The shadow of exploitation, privacy violations, and monopolistic behavior was ignored. Now that shadow is bursting forth in lawsuits and public distrust.

Erik: Is there hope? Can organizations truly change?

Jung: Of course. But it begins with the recognition that an organization is not a machine, but a living organism. And living organisms need darkness to grow. The best organizations are not those without a shadow; that doesn't exist. The best organizations are those that have the courage to know their shadow, to name it, and to work with it. They make their shadow not an enemy, but a teacher.

Erik: Do you have one final piece of advice for leaders who take this to heart?

Jung: (smiles) Yes. Do not look at what your employees say. Look at what they don't say. Listen to the silence in the meeting. Feel the atmosphere when you enter. That is the voice of the organizational shadow. And if you are truly courageous: ask yourself which part of that shadow comes from you. Because ultimately, the organization is a mirror of the leader. A wise leader looks into that mirror, no matter how uncomfortable the image may be. 

Do not look at what your employees say. Look at what they don't say. Listen to the silence in the meeting.